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 Post subject: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 12:30 pm 
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I am currently in Egypt speaking to El Riad and other parties, I have spent the last 3 days in the offices until past midnight discussing a way forward on DP1, 2, CSP, Pearl Vista, Aquarius Pearl. Please see below the final offer I have managed to negotiate, it is far better than I imagined I could get, but it shown there is light at the end of the tunnel if you want it and also you start a clean sheet away from the whole Desert Pearl/WWD mess. PLEASE NOTE THOUGH THIS IS AN OPTION, IF YOU STILL WANT TO STAY PUT AND FIGHT IT OUT NO PROBLEM, I JUST DON'T HAVE THE TIME ANY MORE AND FEEL I HAVE MANAGED TO GET A GOOD DEAL FOR YOU ALL AND I CAN NOW MOVE FORWARD.

El Riad need to sell the DP1 apartments to cover the loss of money from WWD, these are the only assets they can realise to stop the bank foreclosing and taking everything, there are some serious issues with the land on all three sites and it is not good. This is not new news and we all knew there were issues, I just didn't realise just how big the land issues were and it's not just the mortgage.

After a lot of negotiating they have made the following offers and bearing in mind we know from Grant Thornton and OPPN/WWDE's own admission that El Riad didn't receive the final 60% on DP1 I feel it is a generous offer, but it is only an option and I'm not recommending either way. However, I will not be pushing for anything extra and if people want to stay and fight in the courts then it will be on an individual basis. These are the options available:

Desert Pearl 1 people that have paid 100%: they can move to either Pyramids Beach to a like for like apartment (although they are more expensive) without paying anything extra, they will honour the 40% and not chase you for the missing 60% (not passed over by WWD), they. will also replace the furniture and it will be written into the contract. Or you can move to Mamma Mia in Sahl Hasheesh and pay the extra in difference of m2 price between DP and Mamma Mia which is €400 per m2, but you will be in Sahl Hasheesh.

Desert Pearl 1 people that have paid 100% and paid extra to El Riad, you can move to either Pyramids Beach or Mamma Mia with no extra cost for a like for like apartment although at the moment there are only 1 and 2 beds, again your furniture will be replaced and written into the contract.

Desert Pearl 1 people that have only paid 40%, you will be required to swap to Pyramids Beach you will get a like for like apartment BUT if the one you are going to is bigger you need to pay the extra m2 at £300 per m2, if you had furniture it will be replaced as above and written into the contract, the remaining 60% paid direct to El Riad.

Desert Pearl 2, Coral Sea Pearl, Pearl Vista, Aquarius Pearl you have the same option as DP1 40% payers apart from the furniture as yours aren't furnished.


The extra m2 working outs are complicated but if you do wish to swap to either just email what you have now m2 and what you want to go to, either Pyramids Beach or Mamma Mia, the information on Mamma Mia is limited as it just being put together, it has however been approved by ERC who govern all Sahl Hasheesh and give out building licences. It is not being built by El Riad but an Italian developer, El Riad just own the land so it is a joint venture with ALL parties signing contracts.

I will upload some layouts and renders of Mamma Mia and for information on Pyramids Beach please use this website www.pyramidsbeachhurghada.com the availability is not up to date but again just email for availability, they are looking to join some studios to make bigger apartments if required to cope with the swap, we have already allocated 50 from DP2 and CSP. Nothing will be done by way of contracts or payment until DWS give the green light and say everything has passed their due diligence, we have put in place processes using DWS's UK office in Milton Keynes and their Cairo office will do all the legal work, they are covered by the UK law society so have to do things right plus they are a huge law firm with a fantastic reputation.

They have already carried out 90% of the DD and are just waiting for two final documents before commencing a draft contract and rewriting the land Power of Attorney to ensure it is all legal. There will be a cost for the new contract and those not a member of the HRA will need to join and pay the same sum to the solicitors as the other members which is £400, unless you have paid the initial £100 for the initial due diligence on DP and CSP then it will be £300 direct to the solicitors account.

This is just a brief outline and there is much more detailed information if you wish to proceed to swap, it is however your choice and one you need to make yourselves, I am asking for as many replies as possible before I leave Egypt next Tuesday so I can get a written agreement from El Riad on the deal and then the solicitors take over .

The only other option will be an individual fight through the courts as I have spent 2 years fighting this and can not carry on, this is a better deal than I imagined I could get, the ball is now in your court.

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Best, Regards, Neil Hollingsworth
Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 9:59 pm 
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Well done Neil that is fantastic news......Cant believe what im reading !!!I still want to swap....Samantha Green B002 on DP1


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 6:29 pm 
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That is good news Neil, but can these people be trusted to even complete on the new developments its easy to put a shell up and leave it like that.

Its obvious that ER are desperate to do something as they are being backed into a corner probably by the banks so they are offering a too good to miss opportunity. But once they are liquid again will they do the same thing as contracts don't really mean much over there.

We could hold on to our apartments as collateral until compeletion of the new ones then sign our apartments over? What guarentees do we have that they wont do us over again?

What guarentees do we have that we will not have to pay any further monies to these people?

I have heard through planning office via a friend of a friend they only have planning permission for 3 stories on the Pryamids and they have built a forth which they need special dispensation for is this correct? (However there are 4 storey apartments in the area so this hopefully wouldnt be a problem)

I really don't want to put a downer on your achievement and no one wants this to be resolved more than me but I do think we should put an air of caution before we bite into this and see all the small print and make sure this is airtight and notarised in Egypt before we all jump to
we hope is an honest and final offer.


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 Post subject: Suleder Building
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 12:08 pm 
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Dear Neil,

This all look svery promising. I myself have been helping a friend who has bought multiple apartments from El Riad on Suleder Building which is next door to Desert Pearl. El Riad have not finished the development properly and have even resold one of his apartments "by mistake" and have promised a swap my freind onto another development, to which he agreed. 3 months later and untold visits to their office in Desert Pearl and we are no closer to getting this unit replaced by El Riad! I totally understand your wish to get a settlement for your clients and the other aggrieved parties that you have been kind enough to represent. I don't know about you, but I had an inkling of the amount of time and effort I would expend on helping out my friend, I would of politely declined!

I notice that Suleder building is not mentioned at all on any of the posts, or in your dealings? Has nobody else bought or run into trouble with El Riad on Suleder building?

We have been offered swaps onto Lotus building. The total investment of my friend is over 1 million euros so I am very keen to hear of all news of your dealings with El Riad. For your information we have been offered swaps onto Lotus building on Mamsha.

Although we have contracts for all the units owned on Suleder, It did not stop El Riad reselling one of our apartments "by mistake" and taking all the money!

Does anyone know the status of the land that Lotus is being built on? Considering a bank has moved in to the building I am sure the land would be mortgaged as well?

kind regards

rossantony.


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:13 pm 
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buddy wrote:
That is good news Neil, but can these people be trusted to even complete on the new developments its easy to put a shell up and leave it like that.

Its obvious that ER are desperate to do something as they are being backed into a corner probably by the banks so they are offering a too good to miss opportunity. But once they are liquid again will they do the same thing as contracts don't really mean much over there.

We could hold on to our apartments as collateral until compeletion of the new ones then sign our apartments over? What guarentees do we have that they wont do us over again?

What guarentees do we have that we will not have to pay any further monies to these people?

I have heard through planning office via a friend of a friend they only have planning permission for 3 stories on the Pryamids and they have built a forth which they need special dispensation for is this correct? (However there are 4 storey apartments in the area so this hopefully wouldnt be a problem)

I really don't want to put a downer on your achievement and no one wants this to be resolved more than me but I do think we should put an air of caution before we bite into this and see all the small print and make sure this is airtight and notarised in Egypt before we all jump to
we hope is an honest and final offer.


Believe me I have the same concerns and I have sat in the office telling them they had better not let me down and go back on their word to complete PB. They insist it will be completed and as they are dealing direct with no-one in between there will be no problems, they did the same on Lotus and that is just getting completed now so they are finishing Lotus and cracking on with Lotus Breeze.

They have agreed to all the clauses and penalties DWS want to include in the contract and agreed to sign in front of a notary, they have a beachfront project coming up as well so they really want to clean their name/image and finishing PB will be like a sign to the whole world they do finish when not dropped in it by middlemen running off with money. The whole reason to relinquish the DP1 apartment is to resell and raise funds for the bank so holding on defeats the object, but if not happy or worried please keep hold of your DP1 apartment, I'm not forcing anyone to swap.

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Best, Regards, Neil Hollingsworth
Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Suleder Building
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 2:18 pm 
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rossantony wrote:
Dear Neil,

This all look svery promising. I myself have been helping a friend who has bought multiple apartments from El Riad on Suleder Building which is next door to Desert Pearl. El Riad have not finished the development properly and have even resold one of his apartments "by mistake" and have promised a swap my freind onto another development, to which he agreed. 3 months later and untold visits to their office in Desert Pearl and we are no closer to getting this unit replaced by El Riad! I totally understand your wish to get a settlement for your clients and the other aggrieved parties that you have been kind enough to represent. I don't know about you, but I had an inkling of the amount of time and effort I would expend on helping out my friend, I would of politely declined!

I notice that Suleder building is not mentioned at all on any of the posts, or in your dealings? Has nobody else bought or run into trouble with El Riad on Suleder building?

We have been offered swaps onto Lotus building. The total investment of my friend is over 1 million euros so I am very keen to hear of all news of your dealings with El Riad. For your information we have been offered swaps onto Lotus building on Mamsha.

Although we have contracts for all the units owned on Suleder, It did not stop El Riad reselling one of our apartments "by mistake" and taking all the money!

Does anyone know the status of the land that Lotus is being built on? Considering a bank has moved in to the building I am sure the land would be mortgaged as well?

kind regards

rossantony.


Hi Ross, I haven't dealt with Suleder so haven't got involved, I have enough to do. Who did your friend buy through because the mortgage it appears was on the land as far back as 2007, plus the mortgage is the least of the issues with the land, all solicitors should have found out about the court cases over ownership.

I will certainly ask for you if you want me to, if you think helping one has been a lot of work try 200+ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:03 pm 
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Dear Neil,

Thank you for your reply. In the case of SULEDER building.

1. The finish barely resembles the pre sale infomation.
2. final completion has still not happened as the buildings still closely resembles a building site
3. Completion was supposed to happen over 2 years ago
4. The finish in the apartment is seriously sub standard making rental income extremely low
5. Pools were left empty for 2 years and have only been filled with water after it was pointed out they were a death hazard. Pools however do not function, and are filthy and unusable
6. Rentors have been harrased for bills, although no official billing system has been put in place.
7. Female rentors have been sexually harrased by on site workers.
8. Break in has been attempted on one of the apartments I look after, and this was laughed of by el riad when it was brought to their attention.
9. El Riad refuse to work on delivering the apartments to a proper standard, saying instead "This is Egypt"
10. Ther standard of after sales care, and duty towards owners and rentors, can only be described, as non existant.
11. They can and will sell your apartments, should they feel like it.
12. Although offers of compensation will be made, they will not follow through at all, I myself have attended their office on over 10 occasions, each time being fobbed off with another excuse, or being told they are busy, and could I come back later!

kind regards

Rossantony


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 2:29 pm 
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sounds good to me I am happy to swap :D


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 3:11 pm 
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rossantony wrote:
Dear Neil,

Thank you for your reply. In the case of SULEDER building.

1. The finish barely resembles the pre sale infomation.
2. final completion has still not happened as the buildings still closely resembles a building site
3. Completion was supposed to happen over 2 years ago
4. The finish in the apartment is seriously sub standard making rental income extremely low
5. Pools were left empty for 2 years and have only been filled with water after it was pointed out they were a death hazard. Pools however do not function, and are filthy and unusable
6. Rentors have been harrased for bills, although no official billing system has been put in place.
7. Female rentors have been sexually harrased by on site workers.
8. Break in has been attempted on one of the apartments I look after, and this was laughed of by el riad when it was brought to their attention.
9. El Riad refuse to work on delivering the apartments to a proper standard, saying instead "This is Egypt"
10. Ther standard of after sales care, and duty towards owners and rentors, can only be described, as non existant.
11. They can and will sell your apartments, should they feel like it.
12. Although offers of compensation will be made, they will not follow through at all, I myself have attended their office on over 10 occasions, each time being fobbed off with another excuse, or being told they are busy, and could I come back later!

kind regards

Rossantony



Hi Ross,

As I said I haven't dealt with Suleder but maybe if some agents stuck around to help they may have found a way forward, why is it always the Egyptians fault?

10. Ther standard of after sales care, and duty towards owners and rentors, can only be described, as non existant. You could say exactly the same about the UK agents could you not, or you could if they were still around.

12. Although offers of compensation will be made, they will not follow through at all, I myself have attended their office on over 10 occasions, each time being fobbed off with another excuse, or being told they are busy, and could I come back later! But they are in their offices trying to come up with solutions and compensation, where are the UK companies that took money on other developments? Not in their offices helping their clients that's for sure!!

4. The finish in the apartment is seriously sub standard making rental income extremely low
5. Pools were left empty for 2 years and have only been filled with water after it was pointed out they were a death hazard. Pools however do not function, and are filthy and unusable
It is and I have seen water in Suleder pools as far back as 2 years ago, maybe rain water not sure, as they keep pointing out they are Egyptian, they are not used to European finishing instead of criticizing if people helped it might make things easier. I have been through landscaping websites with them showing what they can do to make gardens look better, they are willing to listen if people take the right approach.

I find it increasingly difficult to listen to anyone continually slagging off the Egyptians, be it builders or others, why is no-one writing "WWD robbing scumbags nicked our money" or "why are the police not interested in millions of pounds going missing" or "Sigma Properties not only ripped off the builders, they also stole all the clients money they paid for furniture"

I will tell you why, because they have all p******d off with the buyers money and left the Egyptians to sort it out, what if El Riad turned round and closed their offices, stopped building and just disappeared, everyone would lose EVERYTHING. I have had my run-ins with El Riad as many people know but sitting down and listening plus putting together information from MANY sources I have worked out for myself they aren't as bad as I first thought, granted they won't win any awards for customer service but they have been left in a big hole and just went about trying to get out of it the wrong way.

I may be talking crap and they may yet let me down but I seem to be the only one putting ALL the pieces together and not just listening to one side of the story and if they do then I will have to deal with it at that time.

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Best, Regards, Neil Hollingsworth
Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 6:58 pm 
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Angela's meeting is at 6pm at 55 Spring Gardens in Manchester on 13th May 2010.


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Pinacolada wrote:
Angela's meeting is at 6pm at 55 Spring Gardens in Manchester on 13th May 2010.

Hi

What is this meeting? what is the post code please
thanks Kath


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:50 pm 
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pudkat wrote:
Pinacolada wrote:
Angela's meeting is at 6pm at 55 Spring Gardens in Manchester on 13th May 2010.

Hi

What is this meeting? what is the post code please
thanks Kath

J L T
55 Spring Gdns
Manchester
M2 2BY


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:28 am 
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pudkat wrote:
Pinacolada wrote:
Angela's meeting is at 6pm at 55 Spring Gardens in Manchester on 13th May 2010.

Hi

What is this meeting? what is the post code please
thanks Kath


Angela has arranged a meeting firstly for all the new people that have only just found out about the HRA and secondly for anyone else to go along and meet your fellow investors and hopefully fellow neighbours. I think once this is all sorted out and if we have managed to move people to PB or MM it might be good to have a big meeting where you can all meet each other as you have all been through so much together this past 12-18 months. It all may even make the development more of a community as you have all been guiding and helping each other.

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Best, Regards, Neil Hollingsworth
Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:57 am 
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That's a really good idea Neil, then perhaps we can let each other know who is going out and when to keep an eye out for each other in the future

Kind regards

Sue


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 2:37 pm 
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robo wrote:
pudkat wrote:
Pinacolada wrote:
Angela's meeting is at 6pm at 55 Spring Gardens in Manchester on 13th May 2010.

Hi

What is this meeting? what is the post code please
thanks Kath

J L T
55 Spring Gdns
Manchester
M2 2BY


I will see you all there in a couple of hours :D

_________________
Best, Regards, Neil Hollingsworth
Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:19 pm 
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Hi Neil, Well done and Thankyou so much for all your hard work. I would still like to swap for a like for like apartment in Pyramids Beach, My apartment is DP 1 K301, Thanks again. Sue Cordeux.


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 8:26 pm 
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Following the announcement of the deal with El Riad, a meeting was arranged and was held this evening, primarily for people who have only recently heard of the HRA to have the confidence to come on board.

The meeting was held this evening in Manchester.

A big thank you to Neil for attending to give a full overview of the situation to date - having only got back from Egypt yesterday, this was really appreciated by all.
Another big thank you to everyone who attended, from Bournemouth to Birmingham!

There was a mix of attendees, some people already well aware of the HRA and already members, some people had not heard of the HRA, or indeed had heard we were an insignificant party! I was very pleased with the feedback on the night that our efforts are by no means insignificant!

I promised I would note the minutes of the meeting, but to be honest the overview of the situation to date has been well documented (see Neils post on 21st April) and the offer is also very clear (start of this thread). The key points to note I feel are:

1) The land that encompassses Suleder, Desert Pearl 1, 2 and CSP is subject to not only a mortgage, but also several litigation cases against the landowner. The first litigation was lodged 12 years ago and the landowner is not minded to sort this out. It is therefore unlikely that there will ever be a clean title on this land. This is not new information and was in the initial due diligence report carried out by DWS (on a day trip to Hurghada).

2) The proposed swop to Pyramids Beach or Mamma Mia will have several clauses written into it to further reassure investors if this is the path they choose. These include a) the initial 15% (that those who still have to pay further monies) will not be paid to El Riad until their contracts are signed by El Riad and notarised correctly b) the next tranches will only be paid on completion of set stages of the build and c) the final payment will be when the apartments are fully complete, with pools filled and gardens finished.

An open Q & A session was held, mainly around the key points addressed above, and other areas already discussed in the open forum. I would apprecite posts from any attendees with feedback.

Sorry about now having enough tea / coffee on the go! I was surprised by the turnout to be honest!

Best Regards

Angela


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:58 am 
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ang3367 wrote:
Following the announcement of the deal with El Riad, a meeting was arranged and was held this evening, primarily for people who have only recently heard of the HRA to have the confidence to come on board.

The meeting was held this evening in Manchester.

A big thank you to Neil for attending to give a full overview of the situation to date - having only got back from Egypt yesterday, this was really appreciated by all.
Another big thank you to everyone who attended, from Bournemouth to Birmingham!

There was a mix of attendees, some people already well aware of the HRA and already members, some people had not heard of the HRA, or indeed had heard we were an insignificant party! I was very pleased with the feedback on the night that our efforts are by no means insignificant!

I promised I would note the minutes of the meeting, but to be honest the overview of the situation to date has been well documented (see Neils post on 21st April) and the offer is also very clear (start of this thread). The key points to note I feel are:

1) The land that encompassses Suleder, Desert Pearl 1, 2 and CSP is subject to not only a mortgage, but also several litigation cases against the landowner. The first litigation was lodged 12 years ago and the landowner is not minded to sort this out. It is therefore unlikely that there will ever be a clean title on this land. This is not new information and was in the initial due diligence report carried out by DWS (on a day trip to Hurghada).

2) The proposed swop to Pyramids Beach or Mamma Mia will have several clauses written into it to further reassure investors if this is the path they choose. These include a) the initial 15% (that those who still have to pay further monies) will not be paid to El Riad until their contracts are signed by El Riad and notarised correctly b) the next tranches will only be paid on completion of set stages of the build and c) the final payment will be when the apartments are fully complete, with pools filled and gardens finished.

An open Q & A session was held, mainly around the key points addressed above, and other areas already discussed in the open forum. I would apprecite posts from any attendees with feedback.

Sorry about now having enough tea / coffee on the go! I was surprised by the turnout to be honest!

Best Regards

Angela



Hi Angela, I think a big thank you should also be heading your way, you did a great job organising it and making sure we all looked after. Thank you to everyone that turned up, I hope you found it useful.

_________________
Best, Regards, Neil Hollingsworth
Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:05 pm 
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Hi All,

I have pasted an overview of an e-mail conversation I have been having today with someone who bought on Aquarius Pearl and decided to bail out, its fairly self explanatory, but just goes to show the air of suspiscion that is out there. I am posting this because everyone needs to see that we are not hiding from any of these questions! I have retained anonymity for the person who was e-mailing me.






That's fine X , but that is where this whole process is flawed - people are prepared to put this kind of information out there without being prepared to back it up!

We are confident of the due diligence being carried out by DWS and are prepared to obtain a statement to back this up. I am sorry to have bothered you.

Regards

Angela



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: 14 May 2010 12:45
To: Hogg, Angela
Subject: RE: Hello


Angela,



I don"t think it is something that I should divulge without authority to do so.



But my information is,

Whether or not they have applied for that the 4th floor licence is immaterial - it will / has been refused and more importantly - they know that !!



Regards



From: AngelaHog
Sent: 14 May 2010 12:38
To:
Subject: RE: Hello



No need to apologise! Just out of interest, who was the legal representative? I have asked DWS for a response to this and await their reply.



Angela




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:
Sent: 14 May 2010 12:15
To: Hogg,
Subject: FW: Hello

My apologies for the poor grammar, phone ringing in one ear and mobile in the other.



From:
Sent: 14 May 2010 12:04
To:
Subject: RE: Hello



I have it on good authority that the 4th floor won"t happen.



I was advised not to take this option by my legal reprehensive, after his visit to Hurgahada and meetings that took place with the authorities.



Regards




From: AngelaHog
Sent: 14 May 2010 11:55
To:
Subject: FW: Hello



Hello x ,



I am sending you the e-mail reply I sent to X (below) - I was sorry to read you have 'bailed' - £17000 is a heck of a lot of money, I am also out for a similar amount.



I have decided to stick with this, and at our meeting last night, a full overview of the new contracts was discussed - we have 2 people in the HRA swapping from Aquarius Pearl. The Pyramids Beach development has no land ownership issues, and we have seen the build licence application for the 4th floor (once this is confirmed, the new contracts will be written up).



All I want to do is make sure that everyone has the opportunity to discuss this with us - in particular Neil Hollingsworth who has met with El Riad over the past few months to get to this stage.



Sorry to approach you without invite.



Best Regards



Angela





---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I have really serious doubts about Egypt and their land ownership problems.



We have lost some £17,000 on the WWD / El Riad debacle when buying the now de-funked Aquarius Pearl.

We we then offered Pyramids Beach resort, again that fell through with severe land ownership problems.



We were then offered Pyramids 2 for an increased price, where does it stop.



UNTIL, Egypt addresses its land ownership problems, your are taking a big gamble, no doubts whatsoever.

Nothing is ever finished on time, actually what is the percentage of sites that have been finished !!!!



TAKE A GANDER AT DESERT PEARL 1, SOME EUROPEAN FINISH !!, EXTREMELY POOR AND ANY APARTMENT WOULD BE VERY DIFFICULT TO SELL ON.



We bailed at @ £17,000, with some £30,000 left to pay to buy our dream retirement apartment, an informed and sensible decision in my view.



Good luck to all.


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2010 3:28 pm 
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Hi Guys

Just wondering what opionions people have are you still going ahead with swapping the apartments even though there are land issues or are you going to hold on for the time being until alot more information is out there.

Thanks

Buddy


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:24 am 
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Hi Neil,

I am planning trip to Hurghada between June 21-28 [yuk] and before I make any final decisions, I'd like to see the MM plot - how do I go about a site visit? Is there someone out there that can meet us and show us around? If so, can you put me in contact with them?
I also, ideally, would like to receive ASAP the due diligence report on MM before I go as well - what is the status of this?

I also wanted to (again-sorry ;) ask for the exact reasons why ER are making what is seemingly such a generous offer to us all especially after treating us very badly over the last year (e.g. by refusing access, double selling & breaking into apartments etc). I am still concerned it is a case of "too good to be true". Surely they never can sell DP1 etc with all the out-standing issues anyway and the argument iof being able to re-sell then quickly to Russians (with no contract in place) sounds very fishy to me and I'm not sure I buy it. We all, I think, need more info as to ER's tactics and reasons why they so desparately want us all to swap to other non-built developements.

I am also now very keen to see the purchase contracts. I hope you have iterated to DWS we want a "get out" clause in it, e.g. so that we can sell off-plan before completion, which I suspect quite a few people may want to do (given everyone's lack of faith in it being completed on time and to a good reasonable standard given ER involvment!!)
Thanks, look foward to hearing from you, and sorry to sound negative and for asking more questions, but this is a VERY big decision I'm making here and it could win or loose me around £40k...
Regards, Pebble8


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 10:41 am 
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Pebble8 wrote:
Hi Neil,

I am planning trip to Hurghada between June 21-28 [yuk] and before I make any final decisions, I'd like to see the MM plot - how do I go about a site visit? Is there someone out there that can meet us and show us around? If so, can you put me in contact with them?
I also, ideally, would like to receive ASAP the due diligence report on MM before I go as well - what is the status of this?

I also wanted to (again-sorry ;) ask for the exact reasons why ER are making what is seemingly such a generous offer to us all especially after treating us very badly over the last year (e.g. by refusing access, double selling & breaking into apartments etc). I am still concerned it is a case of "too good to be true". Surely they never can sell DP1 etc with all the out-standing issues anyway and the argument iof being able to re-sell then quickly to Russians (with no contract in place) sounds very fishy to me and I'm not sure I buy it. We all, I think, need more info as to ER's tactics and reasons why they so desparately want us all to swap to other non-built developements.

I am also now very keen to see the purchase contracts. I hope you have iterated to DWS we want a "get out" clause in it, e.g. so that we can sell off-plan before completion, which I suspect quite a few people may want to do (given everyone's lack of faith in it being completed on time and to a good reasonable standard given ER involvment!!)
Thanks, look foward to hearing from you, and sorry to sound negative and for asking more questions, but this is a VERY big decision I'm making here and it could win or loose me around £40k...
Regards, Pebble8


Hi Pebble, yes I can arrange for someone to show you round the plot and even take you to the main ERC office in Sahl Hasheesh where they have a room laid out with a model of what Sahl will look like when completed. They can also give you confidence in that the project has had full approval. DWS are working on the due diligence and are in contact with Egyptian Resorts Company (ERC) and the Touristic Development Authority (TDA) for all licences etc...

The reason ER have been as you say "treating you so bad" I am guessing is that (and I have no evidence to prove otherwise) they have had 4 UK companies come in to their country, promise them the world in that they will make millions and then disappear with those millions. They have also been stitched up by Rawan, in taking out a mortgage they were supposed to be in a joint venture with so if you look at it from their point of view:

Joint Venture with Rawan and WWD: Rawan takes mortgage on the land £3m, takes the cash, WWD take over £10m from clients on various developments doesn't pay the final £2.4m that they could have used to pay the mortgage off to stop the bank taking YOUR apartment. So they lost from both sides, no one was helping as everyone just wanted their apartment, they couldn't understand why no-one was going to the police or WWD to get the money back and pay it direct to them. They then have other parties turn up saying the owners are backing them to take legal action to get their apartments back, so why do you think they started turning against people?

They have been let down as much as you have and they have looked at the bigger picture in that they can afford to lose say 100 apartments on Pyramids Beach if they can sell the rest or take at least 60% off people on DP2, CSP, PV and AP, but they need cash in now to take the bank off their backs plus making this generous offer is making inroads into changing the opinions that people have of them and in essence ensuring the future of the company and in turn ensuring they are still around to build your off plan apartment. They are looking at getting a lot of money in off Pyramids Beach far more than is needed to build it, if you think WWD were paying them £205 per m2 and were selling it to you between £450 and £500, this means by taking 60% direct on final payments they are recouping losses plus making over double on the ones they sell direct again recouping losses and making profit. This means they will have more than enough money to build PB and finance their future projects one of which is a beachfront project, which they have the land and just waiting for the final licence, they are looking to the future and have no intention of not finishing PB.

On Mamma Mia they are the land owner (again they have millions of pounds worth of land) and allowing people to swap to this site means all they do is take the cost off the final land price, meaning they don't have to pay out any money, the developer just pays less helping their cash flow and ER can take money in on DP1 with no outlay. They are selling them to the Russians, I sat in the office for 5 days watching the dollars change hands with my own eyes, not just on DP1 but on other developments as well.

I hope this gives a bit more insight into some of the conversations I have been having and why I think trying to work with them is going to get us all a lot further than trying to work against them. I will give you a quotes from Mohamed "We ant to help the client get an apartment free from any trouble and you are the only one that has come here with the clients interest and not to make money so we are going to work with you to help the client", "we are going not going to make money on swapping clients over but we want to help the clients get a property and show people we are not the bad ones"

Now in my eyes, El Riad are the only ones that are still sat in an office that I can talk to, email, get any answers from, we can't talk to WWD, people can't talk to Sigma and now One Stop have stopped communicating with their clients. I don't have a crystal ball and I don't know who is telling the truth, all I know is that El Riad are the only ones I can see that can actually deliver you an apartment.

The other parties have tried the same tactics with Pyramisa in Sahl Hasheesh, saying they are going to take legal action, saying I am making money out of people signing new contracts blah, blah, blah!!!

We have had around 20 new contracts done for ex WWD clients, who have completed directly with Pyramisa they are now holding the keys to their apartments and actually going over and staying in them. They paid DWS direct for the contracts and paid Pyramisa direct for their final 60%, if anyone wants to check my bank accounts to see if I made any money you are more than welcome, I have nothing to hide unlike others (except I have no money because I work for free :roll: )

I hope this helps and as you can imagine I know a whole lot more but I need to carry on with my other work :D

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Best, Regards, Neil Hollingsworth
Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:52 am 
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thanks for your very comprehensive and quick reply Neil.

I'll be in contact just before I head out there to get more details on who to meet and when/where etc...

All the best :)

Pebble8!


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 11:53 am 
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Pebble8 wrote:
thanks for your very comprehensive and quick reply Neil.

I'll be in contact just before I head out there to get more details on who to meet and when/where etc...

All the best :)

Pebble8!


No problem :D

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Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2010 12:59 pm 
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Hi Neil

Why are you feeling sorry for ER philip morris solicitors arranged several occassions for ER to sign a new contract and purchasers pay an additional 20 % to pay off the debt on the land to abu dhai bank.
At the same time the bank needs to look at itself and ask why did they loan out money to a development that has already been sold.

ER can not be trusted anymore I really wanted to give them the benfit of the doubt but now how can we.


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2010 8:31 pm 
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buddy wrote:
Hi Neil

Why are you feeling sorry for ER philip morris solicitors arranged several occassions for ER to sign a new contract and purchasers pay an additional 20 % to pay off the debt on the land to abu dhai bank.
At the same time the bank needs to look at itself and ask why did they loan out money to a development that has already been sold.

ER can not be trusted anymore I really wanted to give them the benfit of the doubt but now how can we.


Hi Buddy, there are other sides to stories and once you speak to all sides you get the bigger picture and as I have said time and time again whatever anyone does is their choice.

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Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:24 am 
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It seems to me that the crunch time is now here when people need to decide whether to stick with the HRA and move forward with a swop or fight their own cause on the fated developments.

I for one cannot thank Neil enough for all of his hard work to date and everyone must understand that once the swops have been confirmed and DWS have arranged the new contracts that Neil must concentrate on his own business.

Good luck to all whatever you decide - I don't mind everyone knowing I have agreed to the swop and subject to me being happy with the contracts from DWS will be walking away from Desert Pearl 2.

Angela


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:46 am 
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buddy wrote:
Hi Neil

Why are you feeling sorry for ER philip morris solicitors arranged several occassions for ER to sign a new contract and purchasers pay an additional 20 % to pay off the debt on the land to abu dhai bank.
At the same time the bank needs to look at itself and ask why did they loan out money to a development that has already been sold.

ER can not be trusted anymore I really wanted to give them the benfit of the doubt but now how can we.


Buddy, I forgot to mention the people I really feel sorry for are the poor investors stuck in the middle and left to fend for themselves.

I have no idea how some people sleep at night!!!!

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Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:20 pm 
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Hi,

Has anyone had the latest email from OPPN? They are now asking if we plan to swap developments or not and that they want to know by 30th June. They say that once they are successful in the litigation case against ER, that if we do swap over tp PB or MM or elswhere, that they will then re-sell our original apartments.
I don't know what to make of this, i am simply posting this info on here so it opens up discussions.
I am one of the ones who hopefully plan to swap to MM.
What does everyone think...?
I have no idea if OPPN can be successful against ER, but if they are (and we cannot caterogorically say they won't be I'm afraid to say), then we must have to think about what may occur down the line:

e.g.
- ER may not then honour our swap contracts, WWD will then re-sell our DP apartments and we would then be left with nothing.....?!
- ER could, in theory, go bust if they are sued for a very large amount of money and the above will happen.......?!

Regards,
Pebble8


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 4:21 pm 
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I agree with you Pebble8. I cannot see what is to be gained by El Riad going bust and there seems quite a lot to lose. In particular, surely they would default on their mortgage with all the problems that would cause. From my understanding of the situation it doesnt make any sense to me that OPPN would succeed in their legal efforts, but the worry is, anything seems to go in Egyptian law.

Something I wanted to ask. Neil is understandably going to draw a line on this business when the current batch of HRA members is moved. I am planning to stay at DP1 and try and sell my apartment. But in the future, surely I will be able to move as long as El Riad agree? I would think DWS would be happy to arrange a contract in the future (and I know UL can move people if they so wish). Is there any mistake in my thinking about this?

StephenB


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 9:50 pm 
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who the hell does he think he is, if i dont get back intouch with "NB "he will no longer have no intrest inyour apartment.

what a plantpot and thats ???????//


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2010 10:05 pm 
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We are in receipt of a contract that Peter Morris "signed" which has subsequently been denied in an Egyptian court severely weakening our position and causing us much distress and trouble with our dealing with El Riad and other Egyptian bodies. With this in mind you cannot expect us to have any confidence in anything claimed by Peter Morris or associates without some reliable corroborating evidence.

cheers neil


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:34 pm 
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In view of a recent statement on another forum, I would like to challenge Neil Hollingsworth's commitments to El Riad owners by bringing this thread back on-line. He moderates here, let him make his arguments without banning the so called "cronies" that obviously knew more than he thinks.
Read from top down and be honest in your views.

I now ask, what position does everyone feel they are in now that another year has passed since this message in May 2010? Please do not say you were not warned. Everyone who was influenced either ended up going through the courts or have nothing to show for believing these companies.

You know who this is Neil. Stop confusing me with other members of our campaign for investor's rights.
Be a man and admit you got it wrong to trust these people.

Alan.


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:01 pm 
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Of course I know who you are Alan Cockayne and you are an awful lot of other names on here and other forums, as I have just pointed out on another thread these forums allow you to check and trace IP addresses and the one you post from is the same as many others that write on here under one name and then write similar on another forum under different names.

You will see there is a private area on here that I am sure you are really unhappy you can't read because that is where the real information is posted and everyone that is involved in what I have been doing is updated. You have no idea what my thoughts are, what actions I have been taking, what is actually happening. All you know is what your crooked mates are telling you, you are like a little wind up toy, they feed you full off garbage (wind the key) and let you go.

If only you could see my actual updates and my thoughts on some people you certainly wouldn't be writing some of the trash about me you are writing all over the place. I would try and speak to some people involved and find out the actual facts before going any further.

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Best, Regards, Neil Hollingsworth
Tel:0161 6525563/07717826505
Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:33 pm 
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The facts are :-
a whole office network can work with one I.P. address. It allows for the company staff to be moderated.
And secondly, the Egyptian courts will give their verdicts on who is right or wrong.

We told you this months back.
As for being childish, the Toy Story is your tag not ours.


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 Post subject: Re: Final offer from El Riad
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:35 pm 
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Ok so which legal company does Dennis work for?

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Please have a look at our new website http://www.rivermeadglobalproperty.co.uk


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